Hello and welcome to our new episode of Risk and Regulation Unravelled.
That's Grant Thornton's Financial Services podcast.
And this is the podcast that brings you the conversations about the dynamic world of risk and regulation.
We help our financial services clients understand new developments, keep an eye on upcoming changes and work out how to stay ahead of the curve by inviting renowned experts to share their insights.
I'm Alex Ellerton, I'm a partner and head of financial services at Grant Thornton and I'm your host for this episode.
We've got a fantastic podcast lined up for today.
We always aim to bring the bigger picture of thinking to the fore in these discussions.
And right now, I think it's fair to say there are some truly big ticket items for the UK financial services sector and industry, for UK regulators, UK government and businesses that they're all facing into.
And the objective of today really is to bring some alternative perspectives.
And we've done that via our prior podcasts from our own experts and from regulators and from the breadth of industry.
And that's often ranged far and wide across retail and wholesale markets and the length and breadth of the country.
We
We're all continuing to manage a complex environment of politics, economics and I guess the omnipresent need for growth as well.
And I think it's fair to say that financial services continues to play a really important role in the middle of that driving economic and wider success of the UK.
And given that breadth of all of that subject matter, I'm delighted that we're joined today by two wonderful guests, whose perspectives promise to be both fascinating and diverse, and to whom I'm both incredibly grateful for allowing us to have time in your packed diary.
So thank you for that.
I'm delighted to welcome to the podcast the Right Honourable Lord Mayor of London, Alastair King.
And alongside the Lord Mayor, I'm also delighted that Sarah Bell can join us from Grant Thornton's Head of Industries.
So good morning to you both.
Lovely to be here.
Good morning, Alex.
Very exciting.
We've got lots to cover, as I've perhaps sort of introduced already.
But to set the scene, Lord Mayor, I think it feels really important to acknowledge the history and incredible timeline of the office of the Lord Mayor of London.
And I think I'm right in saying that you're the 696th Lord Mayor.
Yep, you are well informed.
I'm 696.
It's A remarkable role.
It goes back to 1189, so 836 years.
And it's gone through many different iterations in that time.
The current iteration, though, is to be the Global Ambassador of the United Kingdom's Financial, Professional, Legal, Maritime Services.
These are extraordinary services, things that we do really well here in the United Kingdom.
They're responsible for employing 2.5 million people, one in 13 of the workforce responsible for about 14% of GDP.
That and I think that comes across immediately that we should talk about actually is that when we're talking through the subject matter today, there's a UK nexus to all of this, not just a London thing for you, I know.
Very much so.
And it's a slight misnomer, though I'm Lord Mayor of London, it's a nationwide role.
And so it doesn't matter where those services are rendered, whether it be Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester or Belfast, it still falls under my reming.
And your route through the city, through your career, has seen you in a number of the key elements of that business and professional services environment.
I've been very lucky during the course of my career.
I've had a professional services background.
I started off life as a lawyer at Clifford Chance, then Baker and McKenzie, and then I did some early stage venture capital, then my own buyout fund, and then now I have my own fund management business.
Fantastic.
Well, I'm sure we can delve into some of the details around that over the course of the conversation as well.
Should we start on just the broader economics that we face into at the moment?
I think London is arguably, I think, one of the engine rooms for growth of the UK economy.
You've talked already about how there are other parts of the UK which are really important for financial services, and we'll perhaps come into that into a little bit more detail in due course.
It seems like growth is one of the omnipresent words of 2025, and yet translating that laudable intent into some really practical action is not as straightforward as it might be and needs that continued push.
How do you see the future of government policy and regulation coming together to drive that growth and make sure the UK's position is maintained?
What I've said to government throughout my term is that if they want growth and they're genuine and wanting to have growth, I do think that the City of London and the financial professional services area is exactly where that growth is going to come first in the sense of
The building's already built, the people are already trained.
The missing ingredient is confidence.
So what can we do to provide confidence?
And Lord Mayor plays a part in that, as does government.
What do you think business needs to do to become more risk enabled, to open up more innovation and appetite for facilitating perhaps different conversations in different ways?
So now, well, I think that I've done a few things during the course of my year to try and sort of strike exactly what you're saying.
One of the things I've done is that we've brought together, I got together 130 of the chief risk officers here in the city.
And I got them in a room and gave them in sort of an American football styles pep talk.
And I was actually saying, look, you're currently at risk level #1.
Only a few years ago, you were at risk level #2.
I don't want you to go to risk level #7, because it's all very difficult and hairy up there.
Yes.
We do need to get you to get back to risk level #2, where we are on a calculated basis, because the multiplier effect between list number one and list number two is quite marked.
And so therefore, but we know what to do.
We know it's within our muscle memory.
And I think the reason I want to do the, particularly the chief risk officers, and we now we've turned that into a network and that's going to meet on a quarterly basis.
is effectively they are the ones making the go, no-go decisions on a daily basis.
And we've what we've done in the past is really trying to, we've tried to involve the boards and the C-suites and the message doesn't necessarily get down to the people who are actually making the decisions.
So therefore, if we can embrace that cohort, those chief risk officers who are making those go, go, no-go decisions, then I think we've got a chance to actually move the dial.
And so what sort of training or what do you feel boards need to be doing to support those risk officers and really shifting their thinking?
I think that there's sometimes a disconnect is between boards and the chief risk officer as to what...
decisions they are making.
You can see a number of examples where the board members will swear blind they're doing XYZ and you know full well they're actually not.
And they're not saying that they're misleading me, they're just not aware of how policy is being sort of implemented further down in the organisation.
And I can certainly give you a few examples of that.
But I just think that, so I think that's, and therefore engaging that chief risk officer cohort to make sure that there's a more aligned
So they're taking things on a calculated basis to make some more informed decisions and also more adventurous decisions.
Really interestingly, we did some research just prior to me coming into office.
And I think the great majority of chief risk officers do view the fact that they do have some form of duty to the competitiveness of the City of London and the United Kingdom's competitiveness around the world.
So they are aware of it.
And I just think therefore let's nurture it and make sure it's being implemented on a day-to-day basis.
Absolutely.
I mean, I don't know, Alex, from your reflections, we've been in boardrooms quite a lot, but the CROs tend sometimes not to be in those strategic meetings, and therefore they're not really strategically enabled to prioritise better risk.
Yes, sometimes.
And I think it's a point where, frankly, we run the risk of not taking enough risk as well.
And that's the point here, isn't it?
I think we definitely see a cultural shift.
And I think that's beginning to be recognised more and more by Bank of England, PRAFCA as well in the way that they're running at that as well.
And I think there's been a real lack of understanding of the fact that not taking risk is a risk in itself.
I think that's the idea.
Yeah, we see all these risk warnings in relation to investments.
But the concept is surely there should be another risk warning saying, there is also a risk pertinent to not doing things.
Doing anything, yes.
And so therefore, I think that's something that people don't necessarily fully grasp.
And I think that therefore, and I think that's both on a corporate and also on an individual level.
Yes, I think I'd agree with that.
You don't see people sort of asking themselves, what would this stop us doing as opposed to why are we doing this?
In terms of
bigger picture things from a budget perspective as well.
We're obviously looking into some quite interesting sort of dynamics that the government's got to manage through a budget process through November.
What are you hearing key stakeholders across the city and more widely wanting to make sure is reflected in that kind of pivotal moment?
Well, I think the
The key messages that I have 3 messages, I think.
One is the idea of the need for a bit of stability, not just in relation to personnel, but also I think in relation to fiscal environment, so that people can make the capital budgeting decisions that they want to make, and they want to make as de-risk the way of as possible, and that's having some certainty sort of going forward.
So that's one element.
I think secondly, I do think that there's there is obviously
reaction against the some form of bank levy or bank tax are there.
And I think that's something that we've been feeding back to government saying, look, really, this is not a sort of consequence free action that will impact what banks can do in relation to driving the economy for the growth on those angles.
So certainly we've been reporting that back.
And then I think perhaps the third you wouldn't be surprised is that the feedback to me
in relation to the non-dom element, I think is pretty substantial, saying that we are losing, the sort of people that we don't want to lose.
And so therefore, and also the other thing I would say though, just on this, is that it would not take an awful lot of change to that regime in order to really not, you wouldn't necessarily attract back all the people who have left, but you wouldn't have to do an awful lot then to attract a whole
cohort of other wealthy risk takers, the sort of people we want to come to do things in this country, from America, from India, from other parts of the world.
And it's a, I think that the calculus is that a modest amount of change, A, to stop more people departing, but also to bring in whole cohorts of others.
That's, I think that's the net present value of that decision is a pretty positive one.
And so the incentive there to really make sure that actually London and the UK continues to be that pretty unique place on the global stage actually across all of us.
I mean, it is a unique place.
I mean, goodness me, it's sort of a great friend of mine, an American, who invested a lot in this country, did say, look, Alastair, if I were a
If I were a Brit, I would stop reading British newspapers and stop watching British television.
If you believe what you read in the papers or saw on telly, you'd think you were living in one of the worst places in the world.
You're actually living in one of the best places in the world.
And where else in the world can you get sort of high single figure or low double figure IRRs on a sustainable basis with good rule of law and a safe political environment, vanishingly small number of places where that occurs.
And goodness me, it's a fantastic platform for so many businesses around the world.
the world to expand.
Also, I speak to a whole lot of fintechs, for instance, as I've gone around the world speaking to these really impressive fintech businesses.
And it's absolutely so obvious that the place that they need to in order to go and internationalize is London.
And there's a lovely expression that I've used, which people seem to like, and that is the fact of if you want to meet Americans, go to New York.
If you want to meet the world, come to London.
And there's an awful lot of truth in that.
But just sort of picking up on that point, I mean, you were at the Davos World Economic Forum earlier this year.
What are some of the key sort of takeaways in terms of opportunity, but equally challenges that UK finance, financial sector has to think through?
Well, I think that it's very interesting that in my analysis, I'm speaking with a number of financial professional legal maritime services businesses, is that
It's interesting that they slightly hide behind regulation.
Effectively, the sort of they talk about sort of regulatory issues and the role of red tape and all those.
The actual, in my submission, the actual reason is a mindset change.
You make confidence quite a bit.
Exactly right.
And I just sort of sense that, I'll give you an example.
I was in the office of one of the really big Indian business people, sort of the patriarch, one of the big Indian
families, you'd recognise the name.
But he said, Alice said, where are the Brits?
Yeah, it's so free.
I used to have a Brit in my office once a week.
I now have a Brit in my office.
once every two months.
the Germans, the Italians, the French, the Americans, the Chinese are all banging on my door.
The Brits seem to have just sort of slightly dried up.
And also, bear in mind, that A, that's India growing at 6.5%, if your economy is growing at 6.5%, your economy is doubling every 11 years.
And when I think about all the extraordinary sort of social, commercial, sporting ties we've got in India, why are we not doing?
And also, the second element I'd say is that that's happened over the course of the
the last, I don't know, sort of 8, 10 years or so, there's been very little regulatory change to stop that.
It's just that we've just categorized India ourselves, you know, as in the, oh, crikey, it's a bit difficult, sort of, and therefore, and I just think that's very much to our detriment.
And therefore, but the great thing about it is it's within our muscle memory.
We can remember how to do it.
Therefore, the mindset can change.
Interesting.
Staying with the theme of innovation, and so we've talked broadly there on fintechs, which I think is a pretty broad, all-encompassing term.
It's quite easy then to get into a conversation about crypto specifically rather than a broader digital assets conversation.
It feels to me like we've got some fantastic world-leading ideas and implementation already on some of that digital asset side of things.
I know if I'm talking to key trade bodies and the banks, actually things that are top of their list are
payments and on all that infrastructure as well as digital assets.
Are you seeing enough of that being pushed externally and globally as well?
I think it is an extraordinary opportunity for London and the United Kingdom in relation to digital assets because it fits in precisely with the sort of thing that we've done so well over many decades.
We've taken, we've got a great extraordinary history in the city of London of taking fragmented sort of unregulated markets and bringing together some order and we do it in a
beautiful way.
We do it on a sort of bottom-up approach rather than a top-down approach.
And we saw that with foreign exchange in the 1970s with Eurobonds in the 1980s and global equities 90s, early 2000s.
We've got the same sort of opportunity now in relation to digital assets.
And there is, because it's a Wild West out there, all sorts of things sort of happening.
We can use our magic to come up with a regulated configuration that people trust.
And I just think we need to really grasp that.
It just feels there's a ripe opportunity for being the perfect mix of stability, certainty, legal form, as well as ambition and growth.
That's right.
And also it plays into the other element which I've seen around the world, and that is because of the geopolitical environment.
Not everyone wants to put all their eggs into the basket of the United States.
And therefore, the United Kingdom is a sort of wonderful hedge in that respect.
And that goes across sectors.
But I think digital assets is absolutely one of them.
And we go back to the absolute essential nature of the rule of law and the idea that the fact that we are, we have a remarkable stable sort of a platform to do business through English common law.
And a platform that I think I've heard you talk on this on previous occasions, which actually is growing and building post-Brexit, not.
I'll just give you a prime example of that.
Just last week I was in Hanoi in Vietnam.
They wanted to create an international financial centre in Ho Chi Minh, the Ho Chi Minh City in Da Nang.
And effectively they want to do so under the principles of English common law.
And so they see that because effectively they see the sort of the extraordinary sort of platform
that gives to Vietnamese businesses and to do things on an international basis through English common law.
And I think that's a fantastic opportunity for us.
And let's make sure that we embed ourselves in there and that that's a gift that keeps on giving for the next year, 20, 30 years.
Yeah.
So I guess there's two different levels of that kind of City of London being an absolute supporter of an enabler of the regional hubs for in the UK, but then more globally outside of that as well.
Absolutely.
And yeah, that's the wonderful duality of my role.
It's A nationwide role.
And I think the way I see it is it's two parts.
One is
Effectively, you're seeking to attract as much foreign direct investment into financial professional legal maritime services from around the world, but equally important is to use my size 12 boot.
British businesses, to be more ambitious, to raise their horizons, to go to places like Vietnam and do more.
Yes.
I guess if you think through ambition, you know, the word everyone looks at the moment, agentic AI.
Do you see that as an enabler for growth or is it a distraction to growth at the moment?
No, look, I mean, it's going to be the most extraordinary opportunity to go off and do things.
And, you know, I think I can't really see a sort of a
a negative case in that respect, but I just think we would the issue I've got though in relation to AI and other elements is that I think they're big companies, they've got whole departments working on, and you've been doing that for the last, you know, decade in many, many cases.
There's an extraordinary sort of
It's A polarity though between the large companies and the SMEs in that it's sometimes there's penetration in relation to AI among the sort of the small accountancy companies, small law firms.
small brokerage houses, that sort of thing, the penetration there is sometimes wafer thin.
And so therefore, we do need to do more to make sure that our SMEs, and also bear in mind, that's where so much innovation and growth normally comes from.
Absolutely, as small as you're thinking.
Yeah, that I think a greater penetration of AI through that route, I think, would be time well spent.
Interesting.
So I think one of the things that can be attributed to your tenure has been the fantastic rewards that you've run throughout your tenure.
It's just interesting some reflections and learnings you've had from that sort of community.
I think when I set up the Lord Mayor's Awards, what I really wanted to do though was to try and...
I have a method through which I can actually sort of call out real excellence in some of the areas that we're covering in my role when we see it.
And I think what we've managed to do is to get some, when we've seen some really impressive British-based fintech businesses that are going to extraordinary lengths to create wealth and to create some opportunities around the world.
I just want to say, listen, what you're doing is fantastic.
Here's an award.
And so I think we've, I think, awarded some Lord Mayor's Awards to some remarkable businesses that have just, that have built it from scratch and that they've come up with some extraordinary things.
And I think trying to use that as an example for other smaller fintechs and others to follow.
But I think it's part of a broader thing in the sense we've got the Lord Mayor's Award there.
One of the other programmes that I would hope feeds into the Lord Mayor Awards is
We've done a series of scale-up showcases in Mansion House.
So what we've done, we've got 20 of the best UK-based tech companies at a time, you know, coming into Mansion House, presenting to around just over 200 primarily British investors.
And the intuition behind it is trying to particularly asking pension funds to look at it.
Because you're asking them to look at these extraordinary businesses that are
are doing some remarkable things, but it's very difficult to attract scale-up capital.
If you're seeking to raise between 5 and 30 million quid, there aren't many opportunities available to you.
And this comes also off the back of an extraordinary statistic given to me by Dame Ann Glover from Amadeus Capital.
In fact, as she was saying,
that the percentage of pension fund monies going into venture capital was a horrifying 0.007%.
And that's a really horrifying number.
And it's a very depressing number, the reason being is that certainly you'd like to think that
British pension funds we're investing into British sort of venture capital for the benefit of British pensioners of the next 20, 30, 14 years.
And that seems at that figure of 0.007%, you sense that that's come unstuck in some way.
So therefore, now how do we make a difference in that respect?
And what I'm saying is that when which I've tried to make a difference,
is to have these scale-up showcases highlighting these sorts of incredible businesses getting pension fund money and other British investors to look at it.
And that's a programme that will continue long past the end of my term.
As Lord Mayor, there will be a number of different, of similar events that will follow.
But I just think, I would hope and expect that some of those businesses that will get funding that then go off and thrive, they may be eligible for a Lord Mayor's award at some stage as well.
Fantastic.
So I guess, you know, we've heard business, be more confident, how, be more risk enabled.
You said stability from the government.
And I think, for me, it's really refreshing to see you sort of lobbying for financial services in a solutions-based way.
And from my mind, there's been a sort of void of good lobbying done actually in the market at the moment.
So would you like to hear sort of more active voices and where should they really be coming from?
No, I think that's right.
Well, I mean, I think certainly speaking to the regulators as I do, the senior figures there,
they do want to have ideas from business.
We say, How do we make it easier?
I say, Come on, what are thoughts?
So, I think there is a willingness to do things, which was really, really great, and I hope that we own business doesn't sort of let this moment pass, because you know it's up to us, really to sort of say, Well...
You can't just rail, at the side and saying, the regulator isn't allowing us to do XYZ.
I think more engagement and sort of, I think there is a, I've seen it and I've certainly heard evidence of it, that there is a more positive regime at the moment in order to take on the concerns of business.
Interesting.
I guess a push to be able to then react to that in a more timely manner, so there's the agility bit as well that both industry and government regulators need to sort of get to.
Yeah, but it's really interesting though that even though we sometimes can criticize our regulators, etcetera, that certainly it's people do criticize the regulators, but
It's very interesting being in Hanoi, as I said last week, and the idea of, goodness me, they're trying to learn a fair few ideas from the regulation and regulator regime here in the United Kingdom.
So we can't be doing everything wrong if people really want to sort of implement elements of what we do.
No, exactly.
It's always felt to me like that's one of our key exports as well, in the right kind of way.
And now is a pivotal time to focus on that.
In doing that, we talk a lot about the healthy tension that ought to be there between industry, business, regulator, clients, consumers.
Is that tension kind of where it needs to be at the moment?
I tell you something that's interesting, though, and that is that I wanted to try to promote some pension reform during the course of my year.
And you can either, when it comes to pension reform, you can either go down the legislative route, which takes two or three years, an awful lot of parliamentary time and all the rest of it.
Or you can use the skills of the Lord Mayor.
We have very little as Lord Mayor, you don't have much what you might call pure political power.
But what you do have is that people generally accept telephone calls from you as Lord Mayor.
And people also, when you invite them to come and have a chat, then people generally accept.
And once you've got a whole load of people in a room, you can then lock the door and say, right then, come on, what can we do?
And an example of that, of course, is the Mansion House Accord, named after my bishop residence.
And that was a coming together of 17 of the largest pension funds, and I think he's responsible for 99% of
the defined contribution universe.
And effectively, they made a commitment to invest 10% of their investable funds over the next four or so years into alternative assets, hopefully higher growth assets for the benefit of British pension holders.
And I just think that 50% of that will go into the United Kingdom, 50% into the rest of the world.
It's not a small programme.
It's about 100 billion pounds according to some projections, 50 billion in the United Kingdom, 50 billion.
rest of the world.
And that's a, it's an enormous sort of source of pride that one's involved, been involved in a 100 billion pound programme.
But also secondly, I just think that it's the sort of thing, you know, the people haven't just said, oh, well, we'll wait for some leadership from the government, wait for leadership of the regulators.
And you said, no, this is what we can do.
We get together, we can come up with these ideas.
Government absolutely helped in relation to that.
They guided and
And in some cases, sort of prodded, and they were extremely helpful.
OK, so it's that right mix and that, so that health attention pour out, good ideas, the right ability to actually again go and do it, and essentially an enablement from the world more widely to make it happen.
I think that's right, and I think it's a good example of this sense of saying that
the government often thinks purely in terms of wanting to do things on a legislative basis because that's what they're there in the job, in the business of passing laws, that's what they're there for.
But I think when we came with them and said, listen, we put an idea on this, we think we can, in fact, the timelines can be compressed along these lines, then goodness me, they were fantastically helpful in getting it all across the line.
And so I'm very grateful to them.
Pensions Minister, Torsten Bell, and also to his team for the help and assistance they gave us in getting that across the line.
Fantastic.
That diversity of debate and collaboration to get to the right answer.
Exactly right, exactly right.
So from my perspective, elevating back to the sort of international platform again, is there a particular government or regulator that you think is getting it right?
I tell you what's very interesting, and that is just
I think 3 weeks ago I was in Singapore.
Now the Monetary Authority of Singapore.
Very cleansy, do you like it?
Very cleansy, probably close.
And goodness me, they are prime competitors of ours.
They are absolutely in amongst it.
But I like the idea that effectively that Monetary Authority of Singapore is both the regulator but also the trade promotion.
The idea of bringing those two together.
More accountability.
More accountability, and also just real understanding that the strength of your regulation is also a great selling point in relation to bringing trade into Singapore.
So what feels like an absolutely packed few months that you've had enrolled already and just a few weeks and months to go, what's been the highlight for you?
In fact, that my wife is still talking to me.
I was going to say, what?
Was the most memorable event.
So I think that's a victory.
And she was very good of her because of tremendous support from her friend.
We were just talking earlier, in relation to sparring with Lennox Lewis in the Mansion House yesterday.
That was a great highlight.
But I think, look, I've mentioned Mansion House Accord, 100 billion pound programme that I think it could be really good in relation to getting British pensions to sort of get up to the sort of metrics set by Australia and Canada.
That's where we want to be.
In order to try and make that programme imagine how it's called self-sustaining, we've done something called the Employer Pension Pledge, which has now been signed by organisations that employ currently or previously over a million employees.
And effectively, they said that when they next renew their master trust agreements or the pension provisions, then they'll abide by the principles of value for money rather than principles of pure cost.
So effectively, it means that the pensions are not just being stuffed full of equity tracking.
and cheap fixed income solutions.
The idea of actually getting some really impressive funds involved in the pension provision.
A few other things here that scale up showcase, I'm very proud of that.
will continue and to try and get some British scale up capital companies, get some proper capital into those.
We've also done with my wife, we'll be doing a series of defence initiatives.
My wife serves in the reserves.
And so we've been doing a number of programmes to get better funding for the UK defence supply chain.
And we've done another initiatives there also of allowing more people based in financial professional services to serve in the reserves and on the recruitment and retention side.
There's another podcast coming on there.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, I mean, that sounds like a fantastic sort of range of true legacy to leave behind as well.
It's great, it's great.
And obviously you can only do these things when you've got a remarkable team.
And I've been, but I think also hopefully I've leveraged the context that I've got and push it.
Just to give you another example sort of thing is that next week we've got the Scottish Investment Summit.
It's a major summit.
And this came about really this time last year there was a global investment summit here in London.
And that raised sixty-two billion pounds for investment into the United Kingdom.
Now, I then was in contact with people north of the border and said, When's the Scottish Investment Summit?
And there was a slightly depressing answer who said, Well, we're not going to do one.
I said, OK, well, I'll do one.
And so, and we're doing that with Sid London Corporation, the organisation I have the great honour to head along with Scottish Financial Enterprise, some excellent grouping there.
And we've got investors from around the world, you know, coming to next week, coming to look at Scottish companies in financial services, renewables and life sciences.
And I think you're leveraging your contacts to bring in people from Japan, from the Far East, from the Gulf, to come and look at these Scottish investment opportunities.
And I just think that's the sort of thing that the Lord Mayor can do.
And I'm really pleased to be able to put that into motion.
Wonderful.
It's been fantastic to hear you talk through that.
Thank you.
And I hope to all of our listeners that you've enjoyed the bigger picture discussion that we've had this morning and that's focused very much on opportunities, but some of the hurdles, but the right balance of confidence and action, I think, that's coming through there.
Hearing your perspective, Lord Mayor, has been absolutely fantastic.
Thank you for that.
I think it's just shown how much the City of London and frankly UK more widely ought to be leveraging its position on that global stage more.
And thank you for all of your efforts in pushing forward that in your term as well.
We're delighted.
And I have a mantra which I say at all of my meetings.
And that's effectively, it's a very simple one.
And that is effectively, if you want to insure against catastrophe, do it in London.
If you want to raise debt or raise equity, do it in London.
If you want to fall out with your partners, sue them in London.
So it's a very simple proposition.
Exactly.
And London is also the United Kingdom as well.
So when it comes to financial professional services?
That's a wonderful conclusion to the conversation.
Thank you very much.
And thank you to the Right Honourable Lord Mayor of London, Alastair King.
Thank you to Sarah Bell.
Thank you to all of our listeners.
If you've enjoyed this episode and you want to stay up to date with all of our future episodes, please do subscribe via all of the normal places that you get your podcasts from.
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So I think all that it remains for me to say is thank you and goodbye.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
